Savar is a prolific author. Not only did he release seven T3 fan missions between 2009 and 2021, he also updated them several times. These new versions went beyond simple fixes: He removed entire areas, added new ones, changed the location of objects, added new objectives, or even rewrote parts of the story.

Here are major versions that I know of. I played all of them except Shadows of Death - the last one.

The Keeper
v1.2 2008
v2.0 2009
v3.0 2010

The Hotel
v1.6 2009
v2.0 2010
v3.0 2015

The Blue Rose
v1.1 2009
v2.0 2010
v3.0 2013

The Secret Room
v1.0 2009
v2.0 2010
v3.0 2013

Veil of Deceit
v1.0 2010
v3.0 2015

Night of Trickster
v1.0 2012
v3.0 2015

Shadows of Death
v1.0 2021

Now to my question: Savar's mission The Hotel is currently two times in the database on Thief Guild: one page for v2.0, one page for v3.0. My suggestion is to merge the two pages to one and to list the differences between them in the notes instead. Similarly, I would add notes on version differences on the pages of Savar's other missions.

Does this sound reasonable or is there be a better way to document multiple versions of T3 fan mission by Savar?

Hi all. Username has shared with me this idea on private and we've decided to discuss this topic on forums.

Would like to know your opinion on that!

Thanks!

I'd pursue your idea with the changes appearing in the notes. There are sometimes multiple entries for T1 or T2 FMs as well but these are often different releases and not updates (e.g. the Scarlet Cascabel).

Having a kind of changelog in the notes sounds perfect to me and circumvents any confusion

I prepared notes while I played through all the different versions of Savar's T3 missions that were still available. I can upload version changelogs if that approach is what we decide on.

The only thing that would have to be done first is to merge the two entries of Savar's T3 mission The Hotel into one.

@Username what are the changelogs of

The Hotel
v1.6 2009
v2.0 2010
v3.0 2015

Here are my TTLG posts on changes I noticed in different versions of The Hotel.

v2.0 > v3.0: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133256&page=3&p=2488043&viewfull=1#post2488043
v1.3 > v.2.0: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125345&page=9&p=2488145&viewfull=1#post2488145
Why v2.0 is my favorite version of the three: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125345&page=9&p=2488152&viewfull=1#post2488152

I'm kind of not following the main point.

@Username you suggest to merge v2.0 and v3.0 pages into one, and list the changes in the notes section.

But the changes between v2.0 and v3.0 (as you write it) "went beyond simple fixes". The same is v1.3 vs v2.0.

I think Morente is giving a good example with Scarlet Cascabel. The changes are beyond fixes and have time distance. Both those aspects are present in The Hotel versions. Why shouldn't they have separate pages?

Yes, almost all of Savar's updates go beyond simple fixes and they were in some cases published years apart. In my private worksheet, I usually give different scores to each version of a mission, due to map or gameplay differences. All arguments for separate entries on Thief Guild.

The main point, therefore, is consistency: There should be either at least two entries for each mission, one for each version, or each mission should have only one entry, regardless of version differences.

If there are no objections, we will be adding individual pages to every release that meets all the following conditions:

1. Release is published after a long time compared to previous release.
If it's 12 months or more then the condition is met.
In other cases, release author needs to be reviewed individually. For example, it's possible to make a complete rework release after one month.

2. Significant gameplay changes are made.
This is a very broad term and we should try to find a good definition on this together.
In my understanding, the following changes can be considered as "significant gameplay". In this idea, the more changes the better - the release is more likely to be accepted as a rework release.
(Note that not all following points need to be met. Just the more points the better.)
a) New locations or removed locations. Examples of locations: a single room, staircase, outside area, whole building, whole street, tunnel or corridor.
b) New/removed objectives
c) New/removed starting equipment
d) At least half of the visual appearance is changed. For example, complete texture pack changes is more than 50% visual changes.

This is just something that I can summarize very quickly and it can serve as some kind of starting point. I encourage you folks to add other ideas if you think some conditions are missing here.

@Username correct me if I'm wrong, but i seems that all non-1.0 releases of FMs in this thread meet the above conditions. In this case we should create new pages in a matter of few days.

Adding individual pages for Savar's missions is consistent with how significant updates for missions by other authors are handled on Thief Guild, so I would welcome the decision.

I went through my changelogs on TTLG and marked the missions which I think are a significant update:

The Keeper
v1.2 2008
v2.0 2009 > https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151794&p=2488292&viewfull=1#post2488292 > not a significant update in my book; contains mostly fixes, but also introduces new problems
v3.0 2010 > https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123913&p=2488221&viewfull=1#post2488221 > significant update

The Hotel
v1.6 2009
v2.0 2010 > https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125345&page=9&p=2488145&viewfull=1#post2488145 > significant update
v3.0 2015 > https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133256&page=3&p=2488043&viewfull=1#post2488043 > significant update

The Blue Rose
v1.1 2009
v2.0 2010 > https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126780&page=7&p=2489708&viewfull=1#post2489708 > significant update
v3.0 2013 > https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132747&p=2489595&viewfull=1#post2489595 > significant update

The Secret Room
v1.0 2009
v2.0 2010 > https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129586&page=13&p=2491553&viewfull=1#post2491553 > significant update
v3.0 2013 > https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129586&page=13&p=2491199&viewfull=1#post2491199 > debatable if this is a significant update; but notably, this version has loot glint, whereas v2.0 did not

Veil of Deceit
v1.0 2010
v3.0 2015 > https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133878&page=6&p=2497112&viewfull=1#post2497112 > significant update

Night of Trickster
v1.0 2012
v3.0 2015 > https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139799&page=5&p=2502217&viewfull=1#post2502217 > significant update

I tried to find and complete every version of Savar's T3 missions that were released. The ones above are the versions I could still find. There were some other versions, but they might be lost.